Real Deals We’re Doing RIGHT NOW

Dave:

Hi everyone, and welcome to On The Market. I’m your host, Dave Meyer, and today I’m joined by James Dainard, Kathy Fettke and Henry Washington. And we’re going to be talking about our own investing journey on the show. Of course, we always are trying to help you make informed decisions about your investing portfolio, and today we thought it would be helpful to just share a little bit about what we’ve been doing early in 2024, so you can learn from our efforts, our mistakes, our successes, and all of that. We also want to show you that even though we are mostly on this show, on this podcast talking about economics, about data, about news, we want to show you that we are actually using the information that we talk about here to make real time investments, real time decisions about our portfolio. So hopefully you can learn how we actually apply some of the market data that we’re always talking about here to our own personal portfolios. So Henry, I’d love to just start with you. How has the beginning of 2024 been going for you? It’s been

Henry:

Pretty good, man. I like to take what the defense gives me in terms of my investing style, and right now there’s still limited competition because interest rates have remained pretty steady where they are, and that’s keeping some people out of the game, which is allowing me to get really, really good deals. And so I’m buying it at a fairly deep discount when I’m acquiring properties. Sometimes that means I’ll get cashflow from day one. Sometimes it means I still may not, but I’m going to walk into a lot of equity and so I’m able to strengthen my net worth and essentially my cash position because I’m able to take lines of credit out on the equity that we’re buying.

Dave:

Awesome. Well, it sounds like you’re off to a good start and we are going to get into individual deals from each of our panelists and myself in just a little bit. We’ll each talk about a deal that we’ve done recently or about to do, and we’ll get specific about how each deal is pulled off. But first, Kathy, I want to hear how you’ve been doing so far this year. Yeah,

Kathy:

We have been busy. We have two syndications that we’ve been raising money for. I’ll talk a little bit about how we’re doing it. It’s an option on land, so we don’t really even have to pay for the land until later. So that’s been great. And then just like Henry said, there’s lots of deals opportunity out there. There’s still a lot of fear, and of course interest rates are still high, so that means opportunity.

Dave:

Well, I want to talk to you about syndications because I’ve been hearing a lot of news recently about syndication performance, so we’ll get into that a little bit. James, let’s start with you. Let’s dig into your first deal. So tell me how things are going in an overall trend for your business, and then tell me about the most recent deal you’ve

James:

Done. Yeah, 2024 so far has been busy. I think it’s the redemption year. 2023 was a lot of loading, pivoting, and we’re going to 2024, which is the year of the dispo for us. We have 16 to $17 million in our pipeline that will be get up for sale in the next six months. So a lot of properties getting sold, but the deal that I’m most excited about and what I’m doing right now that I’m the most excited about is our JV partnership deals now that we’re doing with contractors locally in our backyard in Seattle or across the nation because it’s so busy in 2024, I mean, we are buying apartments, we’re buying development, we’re buying flips. I need more time. And so I’m really focusing on systemizing the investment engines that can free up more time. So what we did is we started bringing in our seasoned contractors that we’ve worked with for over five years, and now we are making them equity partners in deals to where it now creates an environment to where I don’t have to go to the site as much as I typically do.

And so the deal I want to kind of highlight, it was a great purchase, great experience so far is a property we bought in West Seattle. We paid $740,000 for this property. We bought it on market no one wanted. It was a massive fixer to where we had to rebuild the whole thing, including the foundation, relay out the whole house of buried studs out renovation. And because it was a big fixer, there’s not a lot of demand right now. People are still a little freaked out by permit timelines and costs. At the time, I was really, really busy and I was like, man, I don’t want to take on this project. This requires about 20 to 30 job sites for me during the duration of this project. And so instead I brought in a contractor partner where we paid 740,000. He gave me a fixed bid at $310,000 and we are targeting an exit price or just listed at 1.75 million.

There’s a huge swing. So how we did this structure, and I only had to go to this property two or three times over the duration of a 12 month construction project. And so what we did is we brought in, we said, how do we free up more time? We brought in a contractor partner, they can really manage the site. He’s got invested, we cut him into the equity of the deal. So now our contractors that are seasoned make 30% of our net profit by running that job site, but we structured it in a different way as a developer to where it’s really not costing us any money. So on these properties, we secure the deal, we fee it, we take a $21,000 3% acquisition fee on it. We make a 3% disposition fee when we sell the property. And so by creating these fees and structuring the deal, we source the deal, we packaged it, we gave it to the contractor, we are able to charge developer fees during this time.

We then came up with the down payment for the property, all cash required, and we are going to make over $264,000 on our equity split. In addition to we are making $66,000 in development fees, which is going to be a net profit of $320,000. And I only had to come up, I had to source the deal, find the contractor, pair ’em with it, and then all I had to do was wire out about $210,000 in the deal. So we’re making over a hundred percent return in a 12 month period without having to do the work. So this is the year I’m trying to figure out how to package deals, bring in the right partners, make it rain on it, and then just let everybody do their jobs and collect some more passive income. So I am going after time in 2024, just

Henry:

Sprinkle some money on it and then watch it go.

Dave:

So James, just to make sure everyone understands this, so basically what you did is you went and found a property, you identified the property, you purchased it for 740,000, then the contractor gave a fixed bid for 310,000, so you still paid the contractor their normal fee. Is that right? Like the normal rehab cost and then on top of that, the contractor, the opportunity to earn an equity split, is that the correct structure?

James:

Yeah, so the contractor is still getting paid his normal quote, and we’ve fixed it. And what’s happened is by giving them equity, they have ownership in the project where he’s there all the time. And what we’ve learned on this project is the timeline to finish was reduced by almost 20 to 25%. We picked up almost three months on our construction. By having invested in the deal in addition to our change orders amount percentage wise went down by nearly 50% because again, he’s vested in the deal. So he gave us a lot better pricing on his change orders, and what we found is if we’re bringing people in, we can structure it in a way that we can make the same amount of money, make it an added benefit to our contractor and our partners. And so it’s a win-win across the board and it frees up that time to where everyone’s winning. Everyone’s celebrating a big win, and there’s more accountability on the job site, which you always want when you’re facilitating a large construction project.

Kathy:

Yeah, we’ve done a few of these as well, and I’m just curious, James, on your deal with the amount of equity that you’re giving, is it equivalent to, had the project gone three months longer? Are you kind of coming out the same either way because you’re giving ’em that 30%?

James:

So yes, when we ran our performances in our math, we were actually coming out even better when we first performed the deal. Now the one benefit to the contractors is they’re vested in it. We got to kicker on this. The market actually appreciated our target performa price was 1.55, we listed for 200 grand higher, and so now he gets skin in the game for the upside. And so yes, what I’ve maybe rethought it a little bit if I thought I was selling for 1.75 maybe, but at the end of the day I want him to get paid. It’s a win for him, and now I have a loyal partner that I can build this out and systemize it for the next five to 10 years.

Dave:

Wow, that’s a killer deal, man. I want to see this property. I have family in West Seattle. I want to see what you did.

James:

Oh, I’ll send it to you. It is a gorgeous property, but I will say this freaked out everybody in the market and that was the benefit of bringing him in by him being there every day, working with the permit teams, working with the city, it got done faster. And so even though it was a massive project, bringing him in as a resource made it not so scary.

Dave:

Dude, that’s a great deal. Congratulations on that one.

James:

Well, it’s got to sell. It’s got to sell first. Great.

Dave:

Oh, okay. So it’s listed at 1.75, but how long has it been listed for?

James:

It’s been on for about a week, but we have two very serious people in it right now.

Dave:

Awesome. Good to hear. Alright, we’ve heard about James’s incredible deal now and we’re going to take a quick break and then I’m actually going to share my deal with you and then we’ll get to Kathy’s and Henry’s after the quick break.

Welcome back to on the Market. Alright, well I’m going to go next and I’ll tell you guys a little bit about a deal I just did a couple weeks ago. If you listen to the show, you probably know that I have refrained from buying direct real estate for like three years now, and my goal in 2024 was to stop just doing syndications and funds and buy some actual rental properties. And so I did that in southern Michigan and I’m not really sure what to do with this deal so I could use all of your input here. So I bought it, it’s relatively inexpensive, it’s 250 grand and I bought this place, it cashflows a little bit like two or 3%, but it’s in this amazing, I would say a plus location, couldn’t get any better location and it’s zoned very favorably, so it has mixed use and commercial zoning so you could build a much bigger property on it.

It is a duplex right now, so I’m just trying to figure out what to do with it. This is a market I’m still learning. I feel like I know that this was a good spot, but I guess I have three options. The first is to renovate the property, now it’s an older house and try and increase that cashflow. I could redevelop it, scrap the house and do a build to rent. And I’ve talked to some people there who are doing that successfully or I could just add an A DU because that’s allowed too and to add some cashflow in the form of the A DU. So I’m happy I locked this thing down, but I’m not sure quite what the operating plan’s going to be. So if you guys have any feedback or ideas, I’d be eager to hear it.

Kathy:

Oh, I’d like to recommend a book called Start With Strategy. It’s really good.

Dave:

Yeah. Did you guys see this giant version of the book that they just gave me? I got this yesterday. That’s awesome. If you guys don’t know, I wrote a book called Start With Strategy that teaches you how to make these decisions, but if you’re not watching on YouTube, the BiggerPockets Publishing team sent me, it must be a two foot tall version of the book that is now sitting behind my head, but I know Henry and James, you guys go through these kinds of decisions a lot where you buy a property that has multiple exit strategies. What would you do to sort of think through this situation?

Henry:

I can tell you, for me it would be about what are my long-term financial goals. So if the goal is long-term wealth building and I don’t need capital or cash sooner than later, then I’m probably going to go for what’s the highest and best use of that land. And if that’s new construction, then I would at least do enough due diligence to figure out what’s that going to cost me, how long is it going to take before I get start making money or start to see a return on the money that I had to put into the deal. And then I would compare that to what is the return if I leave the structure, update it a little bit and then build an A DU in the back in terms of, okay, how long is that going to take me to start getting return? What’s the total return I can get there? And then I would make a decision based on what those financial goals are. If I’m in a spot where I need cash sooner than later, I would probably take the shorter exit. If I was at a point where I could leave money there longer, then obviously the highest and best use is the best case scenario there.

James:

Yeah, one thing to think about, and I love when you can buy product in a class, a neighborhood that’s zoned correctly and it’s zoned for upside, and the fact that you’re in a plus neighborhood with commercial, that’s a good buy to keep for until it hits that next building. Boom. A lot of times what I’ve noticed in areas that are transitioning up or that are growing is you kind of wait until it hits that spike or that hockey stick before you actually put a shovel in the dirt. Because right now I was just looking, it’s about 110 to 120 bucks a square foot to build something in your backyard in a DU, and if it’s smaller it might even cost a little bit more. And so you want to, anytime you’re looking at developing your property, you want to run, okay, what is my total all in cost to do this?

What’s the price per square foot? What do I need to build? What would a loan balance be on even if you left 20% in the property, and then look at what is that annual cashflow, your annual cashflow divided by the cash in, and that will tell you whether you should build it today or even later down the road. Many times if I’m not experienced in an area to build, I’ll look at just kind of planning it, developing it, and then letting an expert in the area buy it because they’ll pay me a premium and then relo it into a property to maybe it’s already an established rental. You don’t have to go through the headache of building it because when you build it, you got 12 months of dead time on your money, you’re spending money without making cashflow. And so really I would look at those things and if it’s zoned for a DU today, which is a little bit different, it’s commercial, it could get even better as density increases. And so I would wait on the development and then just kind of land bank, this one a plus neighborhood commercial upside, modest cashflow. I’d want to know what modest cashflow means, but it’s bank it for later and then trade it for something bigger.

Kathy:

100%. I couldn’t agree more. You’re so far away, Dave. Trying to manage development. I would get as much cashflow out of it now holding it, just basically land baking with some cashflow.

Dave:

I just want to be cool. You guys are all doing this cool fun development stuff. I’m just trying to keep up with you all. No, I think that that’s probably what I’ll do, especially because it’s a new market for me and I don’t really even know the right people to work with. And so I’ll probably start testing teams with smaller renovation before I redevelop something, but I feel very confident that the area is going to continue to improve and the zoning is very positive. So I think I’ll follow your advice unless Henry tells me to do something totally different.

Henry:

No, no, no. I think you’ve got the right strategy. What I wanted to highlight for people is what’s important here is that you bought something that works as it sits, and then if you want to add to that deal by developing something in the backyard or tearing it down and rebuilding, you’re not married to having to do those things in order to make money. And a lot of new investors, they’ll go out looking for deals, they can’t find a deal and they’re like, well, I’ll just go make a deal. And then they buy something and they decide they that they’re going to have to do some sort of new development to get a return on their investment. And then they get down that road and realize, man, this is more expensive and more costly and more time consuming and it’s going to take me three years before I start to see some upside. And so you could just get yourself in some trouble. So I only like to do strategies like this when I buy a property that works as it sits, because that way if you decide, you know what, I don’t want to do any of this, you’re still making money. Yeah.

Dave:

All right, great. Well thanks guys. I’m excited. I’ll let you know how it goes. Kathy, speaking of cool stuff to be doing, tell us about this deal. It sounds very exciting.

Kathy:

Well, I’ve been partnering with a 40 year veteran real estate developer for 15 years now. We’ve done over 14 syndications and this year we’ve done two. We didn’t do anything for the last three or four years because land prices were just too high and there wasn’t the kind of distress that you need to see to be able to pick up land at a good price. And that is happening now. That’s one of the effects of high interest rates is it’s really hard to develop. It’s very expensive to develop. And then land costs were high, so how are you going to make money? And many people just stop their projects. They can’t make it pencil today with a high interest rate. So again, that’s a bummer, but also an opportunity in this case he we’re back in business because you’ve got people who did buy the land, can’t do anything with it and are willing to negotiate and come up with some really cool strategies.

So it started with Klamath Falls, the city of Klamath Falls, they need new housing. This is in Oregon. There is an Air Force base there, and they’re bringing in, they’re increasing the F 15 fighter pilot program there. So high paid jobs coming in and not enough housing. So the city of Klamath Falls actually reached out to us. They saw some of our other subdivisions and wanted us to come up there, find some land and bring on new housing. It’s a problem everywhere, especially small towns because small towns don’t have a lot of action. There’s not a lot of builders there. So he went and looked at all the different land and he found one farmer basically who had bought land in 2010 for super cheap, did all the horizontal to construction. That is super important to know. To your point, Dave, that development has enormous risk.

And the risk starts with raw land. Like what are you going to do with raw lands? You need to get entitlements. So entitlement risk is the biggest risk in development because you have to have the city approve it. In this case, the city wants us to do it, but the land’s already entitled because the farmer went through that risk years ago. The next risk is horizontal development. That’s where you got to get, people, forget about this. You got to get the water in this sewer. You’ve got to bring in utilities and roads and sidewalks and all the things that the city want you to build when you’re bringing in a project. So that’s enormous cost because you got to buy the land and then you got to pay for all of that. And when it’s rural like this, these are half acre lots overlooking a lake.

It’s super expensive. This would be like $12 million or something just to buy the land and then do that. So the farmer already did that, but he didn’t know the last piece, which is how to sell homes. He is a farmer. So basically my partner, Fred went in, negotiated with him, said, look, we will option, we’ll give you a million dollars now for an option payment, which means that, and then with the close date of two years from now, so you get this option payment and we’re going to pay you the rest over time and we’re going to get these lots for $60,000, it would cost a hundred thousand just to finish the lot, like I said, to bring in the roads and utilities about 115. So we’re getting the lot for half the price that it would cost just for the horizontal construction. And we don’t even have to pay for the land until we’ve built the house and we have an end buyer and at the closing table, then we pay the farmer. So for him, it’s great. He doesn’t know what to do with this land. It’s hard to just sell lots to just anybody. A homeowner doesn’t want to come in and figure all that out. So this type of option is so powerful in situations where there’s distress where they don’t kind of know what to do with the property. You don’t have to pay for it until you’ve improved the land.

Dave:

That’s amazing. Wow. Sounds like an incredible deal. So what do you do from here? Are you going and raising a fund to build all the homes? Are you selling off the individual homes ahead of time or how is it going to work? Yeah,

Kathy:

We’re just raising $4 million for this syndication, and that’s enough to give him that 1 million option payment. This is like the lowest risk development deal we’ve done in 14 years. So we are giving them that option. And then with the remaining money, we are building four model homes to show buyers what they’re going to get and then have enough money left over to be able to build their homes. The biggest reason that syndications or developments fail is because of loans, construction loans or bank loans that they want their money. And if you can’t pay it, they take the land. That’s the trouble that people are in when it comes to loans. But on this, we’re not not getting loans. The fire is getting the loan. We’re just raising enough money to be able to build the model homes and build the five spec homes for people who would come in and want to own.

James:

I love that cities pick up the bat phone call, Kathy to build towns. Hey Kathy, we need some housing. Will you come build a bunch of properties for us? That’s a great position to be in. Anytime you have a city welcoming you in to build, that’s amazing. And I love this deal because terms, terms are key to real estate. It’s not just purchase price. It’s not just debt. How are you structuring the deal? The entitlement game is a great investment business, but like Kathy said, it’s very risky. There’s a lot of unknowns. Utilities can cost money that you didn’t even know could cost. And the fact that you’re buying this at 50, you’re buying this below replacement cost 50% below just to improve it costs 120,000. That’s how you stay safe in a flat market or even a market that could be changing if you are below replacement costs. It is a safe in strategy on a long-term basis almost always because eventually markets go up and down and as long as your basis is right, it will recapture and build back up. I think this is a great deal, and it really comes down to terms two year close, put some money in the guy’s pocket now and then pay him when it’s all done, is the best way you can structure a property

Kathy:

And you kind of have to know what they want. So in this case, he’s a really successful farmer, but he’s not a developer, so this is just kind of a pain. He doesn’t need the money now. You know what I mean? So like you said, James, he gets some now just to know that the deal is real. But I think in his case, his motivation is for it to be a success. He doesn’t want to have spent all this money and have a failed project. He wants it to be beautiful, and we could do that for him. So again, you just kind of find out what the seller really wants.

Dave:

So Kathy has officially won deal flow, the deal flow award by having the city call her and ask her to build a subdivision. That’s pretty much as good as it gets, but obviously the product of having a great reputation and a lot of experience. So that sounds super cool. Kathy, we got one more deal for you, so make sure to around because this one is really good. Welcome back to the show. All right, Henry, tell us about your most recent deal in, I assume it’s in Arkansas.

Henry:

Yes, sir. Right here in northwest Arkansas. And it’s just a flip, guys, just a little base hit flip. So this property came to me off market through some direct mail marketing, and it was a landlord who built the house and he built it to move into and then found a house on the lake and instead and said, you know what? I’ll just make this a rental. And pretty much had the same tenants for 20 some odd years, and he’s just ready to get out of the business. The house has in a lot of distress. So like I said, at the top of the show, the opportunity to find great deals is really out there. This is somebody that we’ve marketed to for a little while. We’re finally able to get a deal done. This is a property. We paid $97,000 for it, and it needs about a $60,000 renovation.

So it does need some larger infrastructure items. It needs an hvac, it needs a roof, it needs a new septic system as well. And so there’s some large ticket items and then some cosmetic work on the inside. But the plan is to sell this property for $280,000. And so when you run those numbers, we’re going to make about an 80 to $85,000 profit for doing a standard run of the mill flip. Now, why I highlighted this deal is because it’s one of my favorite plays, not because it’s a flip that we’re going to make a decent amount of money on, but the property came with an extra lot next door. And so we’ve been marketing to homeowners who have property that are on larger lots or additional lots intentionally, because what happens a lot of the time is you’re able to get those lots pretty much for free.

And that’s really what happened here. He was like, just give me a price for everything. So I ran my numbers strictly based on the house and not the lot next door. I made my offer based on the house, and it came with the lot next door. And so that gives me some options. Again, just like what we highlighted about your deal is it worked with just the main function of the main structure. And this is the same thing. Obviously it’ll work just slipping the house and it gives us options with the lot. So I can take that lot and I can turn around and sell that lot to a developer for 15 grand, and I can add that 15 grand to my net profit and make this a hundred thousand dollars foot, or I can take that lot and use it as collateral on a construction loan and then build a new construction rental property so I can build to rent. And so in that scenario, essentially my flip that I got into with, I think I put my $6,000 down. So my flip that I got into at $6,000 down is going to pay me 85 grand. And then I sit here with a rental property that I’ll get to own forever and ever. Amen. Without having to put much into it at all. And so a flip gets me a rental or a flip makes me 80 grand and I’m good with either way, but I have options.

Kathy:

I love this so much. And going back to start with strategy and what we were talking about and what’s the ultimate goal, Henry, you were saying one of the things you’re focusing on is building your net worth, and that’s a huge build to your net worth. You don’t have partners. The things that James and I were just talking about is we do have partners and we are giving away a lot to that partner. In our case to the investors, we’re giving 12 point a half percent preferred return plus profit at the end. And if the project is delayed in any way, it comes out of our project and we could end up as the operators and developers with nothing. It all goes to the investor. I was going to say to Dave on his, he could bring in a partner, but then at the end of the day, you’re splitting. And sometimes that works great, but in this case, that’s fulfilling your strategy, which is to build your net worth. And I love it. And people don’t always pay attention. People running around saying, I have 10,000 doors. No, you don’t. No, you don’t. You got

Henry:

A tiny no, you don’t. You got 5% of 10,000 doors

Kathy:

Or 1%. Yeah,

James:

I love that Everyone, they’re like, oh, I need more doors. I need more doors. And granted, we do buy apartments, we do scale and grow, but I think balance is so key. And I love when I hear investors go, I’m going to get into syndicating, and they’re getting going and they have these high expectations for growth. And syndications are great for passive income, but nothing moves the needle like a Brrrr property. You create equity that is yours that you can use like a bank account whenever you want, wherever you want, and structure it in ways that you don’t even have to pay taxes on. I’m a firm believer Burr properties are the fertilizer of your portfolio. They grow, they give you equity, and then they allow you to trade it later. And even today when people are like, oh, you’re doing all these big deals, I still love me a single family brrrr property, I will go buy that.

And I think what is cool that we’re seeing right now is everyone’s doing different deals. And I think that’s been the question though. So what kind of deals are you doing in 2024? We’re doing good ones. It doesn’t matter if it’s development, doesn’t matter if it’s burr, it flips. We will do anything across the board. And it’s not the year of buying rentals or buying flips or it’s buying a good deal as long as it checks out all the way across the board, buy it. And that’s the cool thing is there is deals out there. We’re looking at development burr properties, big flips, passive flips, duplexes with up zone, and they’re all good buys.

Kathy:

And I just want to add one thing is really knowing the distinction between your job and your investment. So the deal I just talked about, we’re building homes. This is not an investment for me, it is for our investors. They’re investing, but for me, it’s a job because I’m not holding these homes and I’m just making earned income. Just like when you flip homes, you’re making earned income, but when you do a burr, you are holding that. This is your investment. And I think people get confused about that too, which is so, which is your business, your job, which is your investment, and make sure, especially in your tax planning and your, again, starting with strategy, really knowing what’s the end game here? A lot of your earned income should be going into those bur and into those long-term holds and those long-term investments.

Dave:

Well said. I love that, Kathy.

Henry:

I do want to mention that I may also have a secret sub plan for this deal, and that is the community with which I bought this property is a community that has several amenities, like country clubs that you get to be a member of as long as you’re part of the POA. And in order to be a member of the POA, you have to own property. And so I think I’m leaning towards the plan of either building a rental property or just sitting on that vacant lot forever and ever so that I can play golf.

Kathy:

Oh, I love

Henry:

Benefits. So this is

Dave:

A golf strategy,

Henry:

So it’s a golf play even if I never do anything with that lot.

Kathy:

Yeah, no, that’s real

Dave:

Good. Yes, I love it. I was already thinking, Henry, what a smart idea to market to people with those extra lots. Like you said, it works well and then you have this kicker, but then you just save the best kicker for less, which is your personal fulfillment and enjoyment, which is why we all invest in real estate in the first place. So bravo.

Henry:

Absolutely.

Dave:

All right. Well, it sounds like everyone’s doing really well. I really enjoyed hearing what you guys were up to. These all sound like really good deals. I would love to hear from all of you if you like this format of show. We do spend a lot of time on the show talking about economics, talking about what the fed’s doing about some of the things that are really out of our hands. But we also want you guys to know that we, all four of us, are using the information that we talk about on the show to inform our own decision making and we’re putting it into practice. And so we wanted to show how we are literally putting our money where our mouth is and doing the things that we talk about here on the show. If you like this kind of format, please let us know. You can always find us on Instagram. Our handles will all be in the show description below or on BiggerPockets. You can always find us there. So thank you all so much for listening, and we’ll see you real soon for the next episode of On The Market.

Dave:

On The Market was created by me, Dave Meyer and Kaylin Bennett. The show is produced by Kaylin Bennett, with editing by Exodus Media. Copywriting is by Calico content, and we want to extend a big thank you to everyone at BiggerPockets for making this show possible.